my idea for legs

[KidKidneys]

anyone think this is a good idea or bad idea? I was stricken at a young age by a horrid case of the chicken legs. I've always been trying to correct this. so my new plot I've cooked up for the time being is 2 leg days a week.... power day and speed day

both days including squats, 5 sets of 5, and leg extensions and curls for 3 x 10 each

the different parts would be.....

power day includes:
smith machine lunges, 3 sets of 8 with the front foot elevated on step aerobic risers. 3 sets of 8 with the back leg up (bulgarian lunge style)
straight leg dead lifts for 2 sets of 12
deadlifts, 5 sets of 3, increasing weight, ideally the last set really isnt 3 reps, but fail after maybe 1-2 reps

speed day includes:
box front squats
plyometric hurdle jumps (because my gym is too cheap to get any sort of box I could use)
hang snatches

and maybe something else I cant think of thats an explosive type lift. suggestions would be awesome


odds that this will be a winning plan?

[TheHammer]

just my two cents, but it seems overly complicated. Your legs are a huge group of muscles, training twice a week isn't a bad idea, but i think training for power and speed at the same time might be. You may want to spend 6-8 weeks training for power, and then spend 6-8 weeks training for speed. I used to have small legs. until i started going past failure on leg day. again just my 2 cents...

[KidKidneys]

just my two cents, but it seems overly complicated. Your legs are a huge group of muscles, training twice a week isn't a bad idea, but i think training for power and speed at the same time might be. You may want to spend 6-8 weeks training for power, and then spend 6-8 weeks training for speed. I used to have small legs. until i started going past failure on leg day. again just my 2 cents...

in general, for all muscle groups I am for the last set of all exercises to be past failure.... and the 2nd to last set in a perfect world ends at falire....and the 1-3 sets prior just build up to that point

with upper body, I'd added a lot of strength with this method. for some reason I've got no issues building muscle there. I do pretty much the same with my previous leg days, which were more oriented towards power/strength.... with zero speed/explosive lifts. but it kind of leveled off for the past few years

[Jeff Storey]

calf implants.
wait, nevermind, I'll just give you some of mine...

[miked]

i agree with the hammer, seems a little complicated and like a lot of work. back in the day (college) i used to just squat and do extensions and curls. that got me some 31" thighs. I would do something like a 5x5 or so taking each set to the edge, but not failure. The ext/curls were always as much as I could do for 3 sets of 10.

These days, I focus on Front Squat with some accesories. i don't bother with ext/curls anymore.

I would say make sure you are hitting the squats hard, followed by some lunges or other accessory work and then some ext/curls. While the legs are big, dense muscles, you can over work them. I would stick with one serious workout a week.

my .02

[chirolifter]

day one
rear squats 8.6.5.5.5.5
leg press 4x8 as heavy as possible
romanian deadlifts 4x8

day 2
front squats 5x5
zerchers 4x8

Dump the ext. and curls.... there more for re-hab and bodybuilding... The size of the leg doenst matter as much as the strength of it!
Just squat every 5th day...

Get your explosive work with cleans, snatches, pulls, push presses or jerks... Strength from the above-

[KidKidneys]

OK so perhaps it was a little complicated and I never actually went with that plan

instead I adopted something more simple I took from EliteFTS..... a so-called 5/3/1 program, but I am only using it for squats and not the other 3 lifts

leg days are

3x10 fairly lightweight snatches (intermediate warm-up sort of lift.... not actually recommended in this plan. I added it myself)
squats (3 sets of some low rep scheme which changes every time)
5x15 front squats
5x10 leg curls

I hear rave reviews of this program in terms of strength added in the long term... its not one of the gimmicky "add 50 lbs onto your max in 1 month!" sort of things, but a controlled progress. I'll let you know how it works, as I've been doing it for 3 weeks now

[TheHammer]

here's a few more cents worth for you.
I spent several years(9+) doing what i would call bodybuilding lifting, and during that time i focused alot on "vanity" muscles. For Legs i stuck with leg press, extensions, and curls. And while doing this i got stronger, but started having lots of knee problems. More recently i have been training for strongman and have pretty much stuck with squats(front, back,hack, and now thanks to Wills zerchers) During this time my knees have been less prone to injury. I have a feeling this was due to a muscular imbalance cause by the ratio of weights/reps i was using on the extension and curl machines, but rather than try to figure that out i'm going to stick with squats. Once again just my 2 cents, and you may want to get advice from another beanpole(pronounced "width challenged") since your builds are closer.

[KidKidneys]

well this 5/3/1 is actually a powerlifting scheme, not bodybuilding.... but it emphasizes leg curls as apparently (according to the author's theory) you need a 2+:1 ratio of hamstring strength to quad strength for high end athletic functionality. but it has no mention of leg extensions, it implies that the only work your quads need to get, will get it through the various compound lifts (the squats, and in my case the front squats)

and in regards to zerchers, is there a way to do them that doesnt feel like its going to separate my elbow joint? I tried them, but as the bar rolls into the crook of my elbow-pit, its not so comfortable in the joint itself

[kiltedhitman.4]

5/3/1 is a great program and is no gimmick. Jim Wendler definitely developed a program that rewards those that aren't looking for the "quick fix". From what I have noticed in my training, Quads are a muscle that can be developed by focusing on the proper movement and technique in all the squat forms. I stick with a powerlifting format and maintain a wider base in my squat and am largely focused on box squats. I focus on the rate of force development and try to push every squat movement as if it were 135, as long as it is controlled and in proper form. You will see that all the explosive power is developed in the hamstring. I leave the leg extension to the bodybuilders that want to grunt and strain while sitting on their tails. Real athletes SQUAT!!

On the Zerchers, I have found that some of the pain is relieved when a shorter distance is kept between the elbows. Also investing in a single ply elbow sleeve maintains traction on the bar but also gives more padding while not reducing your elbow flexibility. The pain also decreases as your body grows a custom to the strain and you get stronger!

[Mike Wills]

I think that Gene (chirolifter) suggested a very basic and very PERFECT plan. The man knows a lot about training...I'd definitely listen to what he says. I'm eating steel cut oats right now because Gene Flynn said so!!!

[chirolifter]

ha ha ha... Mike you coming down for the lifting seminar?

[randy]

Squat heavy. Squat deeeeeep!